Wolfgang Templin, 27. 6. 1987, ?

TranscriptPlease note that this transcript is based on audio tracks and doesn't have to match exactly the video

What do you mean by human rights in the GDR when you talk about human rights? What is that?

We have to start from certain areas of society where human rights are important for life. And on the one hand - I think actually the group of social human rights, that is above all with us the right to work and the right to education. And then, of course, the other political rights of freedom, which are particularly clearly violated or prevented in the GDR. And also the possibilities of political participation, which are also very undeveloped. With all these things, it would be wrong to always just cite the state or the security organs – it's like this – the history of the GDR has brought about a process that has made many people so dependent that in everyday life they no longer exercise their rights at very many points, their rights no longer even ... no longer perceive the lack of rights as a problem. This already starts in the upbringing of children – many responsibilities that actually only parents are allowed to bear – with their children or for their children – are already taken over by society or institutions. I.e. the education of very young children already happens according to plans – there are stages according to which a child … should grow up a child and everyone who raises their child at home in our country knows how good it is when you haven’t to raise your child according to these plans. Of course, that's not...that's not a compulsion, that's a habit, but a bad habit, I think, that many people themselves also support, because – it's not like the GDR is a country where you're only afraid. Much of what is missing in this country is also missing out of convenience, because people have not yet learned enough to take on the effort of independence. That is also a very important process. The whole process of education, which is important for maturity, still takes place in a way that leads people to obedience and conformity. In other words, school policy is set up to create a citizen who is easy to deal with. And that's where I think it's not just the struggle for a certain human right, but for a different kind of life that can only bring success – that we have to lead in all areas. It starts with the children and continues in ... or ends in many other areas of life.

Can you give a bit of examples of these attempts to put people in a way, yes?

Yes. In the human rights initiative to which I belong, for example, there are attempts to discuss something like the rights of children – a problem that many people don't even have – but not only to discuss it, but also to consider how one can actually do something oneself. For example, to look for possibilities of raising children together. That is not easy in our country, but I think it is possible. That we try not to do what is important for our own work in such a way that we exclude our children from it. Because if ... that we can do many of the things that are not easy for us together with our children. For example, these things that we do – “Kirchentag von unten” [alternative Church Assembly] – that many have tried to take their children with them. For example, something like this.

When you talk about social human rights, what do they have, for what reasons can you be banned from working and from education?

Yes. Of course, you don't get banned from a profession or education for having a different opinion or for having said something wrong at some point. The GDR is no longer like that. This problem occurs when one is consistently engaged. That is, when you try to make more out of your own opinion, out of the conflict you are experiencing than just talking about it at home or to a few friends. When you sit down, write a letter and sign this letter together with others, when you give it to the public. When you stand up for those affected. For example, if you collect money for those arrested, if you also turn to the press, if you set up your own citizens' initiative. In all these things, the state begins by warning the citizen. It tells them that it is in their interest to live here in safety, and it wants to guarantee this safety, but that is not possible if the citizen behaves in this way politically. And if these warnings are not heeded, then at some point the labour conflict sets in or, for example, the children don't get a place at university or the qualification is no longer possible. Things like that.

How many people do you know – how many people are of these social human rights; do they have problems in this direction?

Those whom we know directly, that is after all several hundred whom we know directly, whose cases we have also been able to collect and document, are always only a very small minority. This practice is also being developed further in the GDR, because in recent years the number of legal prosecutions for politically committed people has tended to decline. This has to do with the international situation – the GDR does not always want to call its foreign policy weight into question. The economic dependency also leads it to give in in some places – i.e. to withdraw the worst forms of repression and move to quieter, more inconspicuous ones – and that's that. And I think that will also play a big role for the following years – especially because many people who are under ... young people who are under educational or professional bans choose a way out that is not good for any of us – they leave the country.

Can you give us a very practical example of the methods that the state, with which the state tries to educate a man [man] in the state, so not to control, so not with the police, but the other methods, the easier methods?

Yes, these means and methods start very early. Every kindergarten – children are in kindergarten when they are 2 years old – but even a crèche has so-called education and upbringing plans and these not only contain practical things like when a child eats or how a child dresses – they also already contain for these young children which values and which views are desired. Already in kindergarten, soldiers are held up as role models, people talk about the army, war toys are used – there are many actions against this – but this goes on. In school, already in the first grade, one becomes a member of the pioneer organisation and there, of course, an adaptation, an acclimatisation to the political ideas and principles of the state takes place over the whole time. There are children who are not in the pioneer organisation – even now in the GDR – you just have to be consistent as a parent. But even someone who is not in the pioneer organisation will take in a lot of political elements through the curriculum. As a parent, you can resist this. Further. When children become adolescents, there's a new stage in the eighth grade, when you're 14 years old, a lot of them, most of them, become members of the Free German Youth, the youth organisation – over 90 per cent of all young people are in the FDJ. There is a tradition in the GDR, the so-called “Jugendweihe” (initiation ceremony for young people), and there, too, they spend a whole year preparing, old party cadres, anti-fascists – they try to present the image of the GDR in such a positive way and to present the role of the citizen, the duties and responsibilities for the young people. I think that in all this time it is important to try something different.